Life in the sky can be a thrilling journey, but for those of us who experience flight anxiety, it's not always smooth sailing. Cue my (Sara's) recent bout of aviophobia, a sudden fear of flying that has sneakily crept into my adventurous life, throwing a wrench in the works of our travel vlogging. To help shed light on this fear and hopefully help others in the same boat (or should we say plane?), we invite Kyle, the founder of Dial a Pilot, onto the podcast. Imagine a hotline that connects you with an active or retired airline pilot, ready to answer your every query, no matter how irrational - that's Dial a Pilot!
It's not always turbulence that leaves us gripping the armrests; sometimes it's the sheer lack of control and understanding of what's going on. Having someone to pre-brief you before a flight or debrief you afterward can be a game-changer. The world of flying can be a complex labyrinth, but Kyle breaks it down for us – from the software systems and weather apps pilots use, to the intricacies of airport logistics, and even the dramatic Hollywood representations of airplane emergencies.
But let's not forget the fun part - snacks! Yes, we even wander into a lighthearted discussion about the anticipation of the air stewardess coming around with her cart of goodies. However, we don't shy away from the serious stuff - we delve into the rigorous training of pilots and mechanics, the redundant safety systems built into airplanes, and how maintenance issues are promptly resolved. So, whether you're a nervous flyer, a travel enthusiast, or simply curious about the world of aviation, join us as we navigate through the challenges and complexities of flying. It's time to buckle up and overcome our fear of flying, together.
Podcast - From the Flight Deck (presented by Dial A Pilot): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/from-the-flight-deck-presented-by-dial-a-pilot/id1711073243
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrisandsara_ | @chrisandsara_
Call or text us a question or comment: +1 (423) 825-9572
Get inspired by world travelers Chris and Sara with "What No One Tells You," their conversational podcast. Each episode is a fun chat with friends sharing personal experiences, insider tips, and riveting stories. The show is elevated by amazing guests from Youtubers, ultra marathoners, bloggers, and adventurers who bring their unique energy and perspectives to the table. With Chris and Sara, you're sure to feel a part of the group, ready to embark on a new adventure. Explore the world one story at a time and join the conversation today.
Hey y'all! We're Chris + Sara (or as you know us, Let’s Be Us), a husband and wife digital nomad travel duo currently working and traveling full time with our pup, Kramer. We've always dreamed of traveling full time, and in May of 2018 we took the leap and made it happen! Today we're balancing work and fun everywhere between the Pacific and Atlantic. From hiking and cycling to tacos and coffee, we're trying to see and experience as much of this world as we can! While our home is currently on wheels in our DIY Sprinter van, our travels take us all around the world.Be sure to hit subscribe here on Youtube and follow along on Instagram for more daily fun! Oh, and be sure to say hi while you're here. :)
NOTE: There were 3 speakers identified in this transcript. Speaker separation errors can arise when multiple speakers speak simultaneously.
0:00:00 - Sara
This episode, Kramer. Can you see Kramer?
0:00:03 - Chris
They can see Kramer. If you can't see Kramer, our dog, he is in the video frame, but he is welcoming you to the start of this episode.
0:00:11 - Sara
This episode is ooh, it's a vulnerable one for me. Actually, I haven't talked about this publicly, I don't think, but I have a fear of flying, and this is not something I have dealt with forever. This is in the last two or three years I've become horribly afraid of flying. I used to love it so much so that I thought I was going to be a pilot. I have literally flown a plane before.
I loved flying and a few years ago, I don't know, something clicked and I became horribly afraid, and so getting over this fear of flying has been a real challenge for me in the last few years. I haven't let it stop me from going anywhere, but it's definitely been to where I get very anxious, like weeks leading up to it and then a couple of days before I don't eat, I will not eat a bite the entire day we fly. I will be so nauseous I can't eat, and then we land and I'm starving. So it's just been this horrible, horrible thing for me in the last few years that I've been very embarrassed of being a travel blogger.
0:01:09 - Chris
Yeah, you're a travel blogger who doesn't like to travel.
0:01:12 - Sara
No, I like to travel and I'm not going to let it stop me from traveling. I will still buy the dang ticket, but I don't enjoy the process of it like I used to. There's a reason why Chris and I have not filmed in the airports the last few years, because I have been just a wreck. I mean, there have been a couple here and there, a couple flights. I remember flying to Iceland. I did fine. I was a little bit nervous but I handled that one fine. But there have been other ones, like Korea. I was not okay Even going to Mexico. My worst flight I've had has been a two-hour flight to Mexico.
0:01:41 - Chris
I think our worst flight ever was actually flying into our hometown, chattanooga.
0:01:44 - Sara
Well, bump-wise, bump-wise, fear-wise.
0:01:47 - Chris
And nothing. I mean, it was just, I think, an overeager pilot, it was an overeager pilot.
0:01:51 - Sara
It was a new pilot, I think.
0:01:52 - Chris
He was young, we got there barely.
0:01:54 - Sara
It was fine, but a couple. I mean. When we went to Mexico back in April of this year, it was a two-hour flight from Texas to Cancun, and I have never been so riddled with anxiety in my life. So I am saying a lot to say that I have since learned, talking with a few friends. But there are a lot of y'all out there too who struggle with flying, Something that supposedly we're told is completely rational, that statistically you're way safer in the air than you are on the road. I'm sorry, but when I'm up 40,000 feet in the air right now, stats don't help me. I want to be on the ground.
0:02:28 - Chris
Well, and social media doesn't help either, when you're going through reels or TikTok and you start seeing videos of passengers being carried off planes, or you see somebody that had an accident and the entire plane had to leave, or you just hear all of these stories. Now, granted, if you look at a map of all these airplanes, you'll notice that there are thousands in the air and the news will just pick up on one little airplane or one little trip. But you see that and you hold on to that and while you're on the plane, you start thinking is this going to be that trip?
0:03:03 - Sara
Is this going to be that trip? I mean Hollywood alone. Hmm, I guess so angry at Hollywood how they prey on the fear. I mean you go to Netflix and there's like 20 documentaries on flights that have crashed and there's movies like Castaway. I mean I cannot believe my parents. Let me watch Castaway Wilson.
0:03:18 - Kyle
0:03:19 - Sara
That's very classic. Okay, we're going into a lot of depth here about being afraid of flying, but I'm saying all that to say being very honest and saying I have a fear and I've worked at overcoming it. I'm in the process of overcoming it and this, this guy that we're talking to today, his name is Kyle. Kyle recently started a business called Dial A Pilot and I discovered this, thank you Instagram. But his business is designed to you can call a pilot before or after your flight and talk to them about turbulence on your flight, your specific flight, the specific aircraft, all those kind of thing and I just thought that idea was so cool. Instead of me trying to run around the internet and piece together information on my own of what I thought the turbulence was going to be for the maps I was finding on Google, they could actually help us out, and I think that's such a genius idea and I wanted we wanted to have Kyle on and talk to us and also answer a lot of my irrational questions.
0:04:08 - Chris
And I have a lot of weird questions to ask pilots.
0:04:10 - Sara
So that's you're not afraid of flying. No.
0:04:14 - Chris
I'm not Like I'm not. The only time I get afraid is when Sara gets afraid, so it's we both feed off of each other.
0:04:21 - Sara
But you're not bad, though, no.
0:04:23 - Chris
And I'm more invested in what the air stewardess has on the cart, like what drink am I going to get? How many Biscoff biscuits will I get? I like that's.
0:04:32 - Sara
So we knew that little cart comes by, he gets his posture, gets real straight, he'll. What do you got?
0:04:38 - Chris
Well, and I'll put a pause on my TV show and take my headphone off, just so I'm just like I want to make sure I hear all the questions.
0:04:44 - Sara
Like you don't know, it's Biscoff and cheese.
0:04:46 - Chris
It's again. Oh, please, I may say, would you like more? Well, yes, I did. I paid all this money. I want some more snacks you already get double.
0:04:54 - Sara
Lately you could double on flights because I won't eat mine, so I just passed Chris mine, absolutely yeah.
0:04:59 - Chris
Well, Sara struggles with her anxiety on a plane. I benefit on the food wise, but I don't benefit in the other.
0:05:06 - Sara
No, you're really a good sport about it. But Chris's questions are a little bit more off the wall because he doesn't deal with the struggling of flying. I'm here to find out. Give me the information. How well are you guys actually trained?
0:05:18 - Chris
And Chris is here like what do you want to know? I want to know if we even need pilots Give us the drama. Yeah, so, without further ado, we are going to get into our conversation with Kyle from Diola Pilot.
0:05:35 - Sara
Kyle, thank you so much for being here with us today to talk about something that is very important to me, which is being afraid of flying and helping people overcome that. So, first off, just thank you for being here, and we're so glad you could be.
0:05:50 - Kyle
Oh, my pleasure. I'm very excited to be here and, yeah, thank you so much for having me.
0:05:54 - Chris
All right. So let's go ahead. Let's just get into the nitty gritty, tell us, like who you are, like where you're at, like what you do all the good stuff that everybody needs to know.
0:06:03 - Kyle
Absolutely so. My name is Kyle Kokol. I'm an airline pilot. I've been flying professionally for 10 years now and right now I actively fly the Boeing 737. Previously I flew the 757, the 767, the Embraer ERJ 175, and then a variety of private jets before that, and still actively fly general aviation, which just is a fancy way of saying small airplanes have always loved flying. It's just such a kind of fabric of my being.
And so my wife now, when we first met her sister, was really afraid of flying.
So I would take all these phone calls from her and we would talk about the turbulence of the upcoming flight, we'd talk about the different types of airplanes that she was on, all those different things.
And when my wife and I moved to San Francisco, I started meeting friends and they had the same questions. We just kind of went through it more and more. And so I started to study aviophobia, the fear of flying, and realized, wow, there's this really kind of underserved segment of that group that just needs to be able to kind of go out there and talk through their questions and figure out, hey, I don't like this part of takeoff, but I think it's just because I don't understand it quite right. So I want to figure that out, and there's a lot of YouTube videos that can help with that, but what better way to learn than by being able to ask very pointed, specific questions? And so that's kind of what we started doing, and I think, to answer the rest of your question, I live in San Francisco and, yeah, so I get to fly all over the world which is really cool, that's so cool.
0:07:41 - Chris
Oh man, all right, I have a lot of questions, but I know this is something that's near and dear to Sara's heart.
0:07:46 - Sara
Well, yeah, fear of flying is something that's very new to me. I actually wanted to be a commercial pilot all the way through college. Like I've done the whole, like intro flight, like I thought I was going to be a pilot. Like this is like I was dead set on it and then changed my mind because I realized I really don't like sitting still that much, Like I don't think I could do, like international flights all the time, but I love traveling, so, anyway, pivoted away from that.
But during COVID I actually developed this. Really, I keep calling it an irrational fear of flying, but turns out it's probably not so irrational, because a lot of other people have the same fear and I don't know where it came from. But suddenly I am just like full on panic attack flying and it's I want to say it's getting better. But Dial A Pilot is one of those things that I have recently discovered and I was like that is such a cool idea, Because until I discovered you guys, I was sort of like piecing together little bits of information I was finding online about the flight, like you know what's the turbulence going to be like, and trying to look at the weather radar.
I'm not a meteorologist, so this is like I was making it worse for myself. That's what I probably should have been, but that's why this is really important to me, because it's a new fear that I'm in the process of overcoming. So you said briefly that your is your sister-in-law had the fear of flying. I'm just going to go ahead and ask how's she doing now? Has this helped her?
0:08:59 - Kyle
She still has it, but she definitely has it in a less significant manner than she used to, and so we see varying kind of levels of success with with each one of our clients.
Some people come back to us and after a 15 minute phone call, if you can believe it, say, oh, I'm fixed. And I'm like, really that's amazing. But you know, some they come back on every flight and really what we're trying to do is exactly what you just said and you can go out and gather all of this information and see oh okay, I'm flying over a cold front and through an area of low pressure and it's really windy on the surface in Albuquerque. What does that really mean? Does that mean anything to your flight on that day? And so that's what we're really able to go in there and do and give a professional analysis of what your flight is actually going to be that day. So that's what we're really aimed at doing and helping exactly what you just said to kind of understand it on a more significant level. So yeah, lindsay, she still is a little bit nervous traveling, but she knows that she can call me before every flight, so it does work out pretty well for both of us.
0:10:05 - Sara
Yeah, that's such a great idea.
0:10:07 - Chris
So is there a common theme on what causes people to have a fear of flying? Are there common excuses that people give?
0:10:14 - Kyle
you. It's interesting. What I found recently is a majority of people, Sara, are really like yourself, that it came on randomly kind of later in life as a loose term, but in more recent years I think, and I don't know if that had to do with the pandemic and being separated from folks or kind of what it all boiled down to. But we see a lot of people that come to us from social media that talk about I saw this video and this kind of scared me. Can that happen again? And then they see an article written by some media outlet that says, oh, there's been 47 close calls in the US airline industry over the last year, something like that, and so we're able to actually just provide context on that.
And I think that's really what a lot of people come to us with. And then, of course, the questions vary from things like turbulence and noises and kind of what a specific feeling is on the airplane, whether that be, you know, a backwards tumbling feeling or a sinking feeling after takeoff, you know those sort of things. We're kind of able to track that down and say, oh well, actually why you feel like you're tumbling backwards is what's called the Coriolis illusion, or actually that one's the somatographic illusion rather. So you know just little things like that, where we can kind of give somebody the context to understand what's happening.
0:11:30 - Sara
I love that I mean, I don't even know where to go with this because, I want to have so many questions because I maybe it's just me.
I'm the kind of person who needs all the information and maybe there's a there's like a common theme between all of us who have a fear of flying, who need to know all of that information. But sometimes I feel like too much information can be bad and I think that's kind of what you were saying. Like you're seeing these articles, you're seeing these reels online and that's igniting fear and people and I'm guilty of that. Like the algorithm has learned that I'm afraid of flying and they will feed that to me. So like I've got to know what happened.
0:12:00 - Chris
Oh yeah, our YouTube is so messed up right now, it's just, it's awful.
0:12:04 - Sara
They prey on fear.
0:12:05 - Kyle
Right, right, yeah, no, absolutely. You know, information is good as long as it's packaged in a way that that is easy to understand and easy to not jump to conclusions on.
0:12:16 - Sara
0:12:16 - Kyle
And an aviation. You know, of course I always tell people, of course you're going to be afraid of flying in some way or another it's. You're getting in a metal tube with 200 other people and there's two people in front that you don't know and they're hurtling you 500 miles an hour, you know, at 40,000 feet in the air. That's scary, and so we get it. And so you know, of course it's easy for your brain to go to what's called that confirmation bias and look for reasons that it's in danger. And so you know, flying is a very natural place to do that. So being able to stop that confirmation bias by giving information that actually seeks to stop from you know, telling yourself you're in danger is really kind of where that all you know comes into play, and I think that's what's so helpful about it.
0:12:57 - Sara
So that actually leads me to my next question, which is pilots. I have actually approached the flight attendant before. I'm like hey, I'm a fearful flyer and they actually had the pilot come out and talk to me and I felt like I was being such an inconvenience. I thought these people think I'm crazy. They fly all the time. They love this. Our flight attendants and pilots pretty sympathetic. Are they pretty understanding on the plane of like, if I'm sitting there freaking out like they're cool with it?
0:13:22 - Kyle
Oh, absolutely yeah. I mean, I think we all understand from that very basic level exactly what I was just talking about, where, yeah, of course this is a frightening thing and honestly, it's better, in my opinion, when somebody is able to come to us and say, hey, this makes me nervous, because then we can go back there with our iPads and we can say, hey, here's what you're actually looking at today, this is what's going to go on, this is where we're going to encounter the turbulence. If you have questions, let us know. If you start to feel nervous, let the flight attendant know.
You know all those things where we just all of a sudden have the tools to kind of help you feel more comfortable throughout the flight, and I think human nature is really to help people out. So you know, it's always walking that fine line as an aircrew member to not overstep and hey, you know, can I help you? What do you need? You know to somebody that's nervous. But if somebody does come to us and say I am anxious about this flight, it really just empowers us to use those tools to help, you know, make somebody feel more comfortable and confident with just taking off in general.
0:14:17 - Sara
That's exactly what happened with me. Actually, as I told the flight attendant, they had the pilot come out. He brought us a little iPad out, and this is one of those times where I like over and I got myself way too much information ahead of time. I saw there was a storm on the way to Mexico. I was like, oh my gosh, it's gonna be turbulent. And then he came out. He's like no, no, no, we're going to go around the storm Like it's going to be okay and it was just like the best experience ever.
So ever since, I'm like Okay there's somebody out there who can help and talk through it. And that's about the same time I discovered dial up pilot. So, I don't think we've yet talked about exactly what dial pilot is, so could you explain that for listeners, what your company is and what it does for people?
0:14:49 - Kyle
So what we do is we simply provide an airline pilot on the other side of the phone in the form of a 15 to 20 minute phone call, and it's just a a opportunity for the nervous traveler to ask a professional, us based either active airline pilot or retired airline pilot that has a lot of experience Any questions that they have. And those questions can be before a flight, they can be before even book a flight, they can be after a flight. You know, if you went through something that was a little bit more bumpy than you thought, or you did a go around, you know something like that that kind of caused some anxiety for you, we're here to answer those questions and kind of either debrief or pre-brief you, and so it's a really Simple concept. It's just, you know, give us a call, we'll chat with you and answer your questions, and you know we're constantly looking to expand that service. But that's, that's how it sits right now and we've been operating for about two months and we've worked with about 150 folks at this point.
0:15:45 - Sara
Wow, I didn't know you guys did debriefing actually, and I wish I, I wish you guys have been around after we had a really, really bad Flight to Korea last year it was.
0:15:55 - Chris
It was really really rough.
0:15:56 - Sara
Gosh, it was awful like we had it end up dropping from like 35,000 feet to 25,000 feet. For the rest, I mean it was just like it was a nuts.
I've never in my life experience a fight that. And we used to fly not like Business travelers when we used to fly across the country like once a month kind of thing. So we used to do it pretty regularly to where I was used to a little bit of turbulence. But this was awful and I wish I could have called somebody and been like hey, why was that flight weird? Is this normal for going across specific like I don't? I mean, that's just I thought about the Head of the flight. But knowing that I can call afterwards and kind of walk through that and rationalize instead of sitting on those memories Until the next flight, would be really helpful, I think yeah, that's actually really cool part of your service, oh totally.
0:16:34 - Chris
So I want to know, like I've got a lot of like weird questions that I'm gonna throw to you.
0:16:41 - Sara
I'm just seeing what you're gonna ask, though, because he doesn't have a fear of flying. So he says there, and he looks like I don't really understand.
0:16:47 - Chris
Well, I start getting scared when she gets yeah so like I start feeding off her, I'm like, oh, this pilot has no clue what he's doing. Like, oh crap, what are we doing? And so I'm first question Do you what are like, do you guys have tools? Or like, are you able to look at the maps and the weather maps and kind of like gauge, like what the flight's gonna be? Like you know, you're like, yeah, I know, I can tell it's gonna be a little bumpy or it's gonna be pretty smooth. I mean, how, how accurate are you like when you're determining? You know what it's totally we have these really amazing tools.
0:17:19 - Kyle
So the the airlines provide us all with with an iPad, and we call it an EFB, which stands for electronic flight bag and, again, just a fancy term for an iPad. But it has all these different weather apps preloaded on it, and those weather apps range from anything that comes from the US government to actual accelerometers in each iPad that then drop a pin on the map and tell you how turbulent it is. So we actually have like ways for the sky, essentially, and so I can look and I can click on my iPad and see, oh, okay, this triple seven going through it 34,000 feet. Five minutes ago they had light chop, and so we can see that and go okay, well, what's this other guy have?
And then we'll talk to our air traffic controllers and say, hey, what, what ride reports are you getting from? You know the guys and gals in front of us, the guys and gals behind us, below us, above us, all that stuff, and so we're really able to Hone in and find if there's a smooth ride out there. We can get to it. Nine times out of ten we may have to make a turn, we may have to slow down, speed up, any one of those things just to create traffic separation. But, to answer your question, we have really really strong software systems On our iPads and then also we have access to our dispatchers, which are based all over the country, depending on which airline you work for, and they get really good ride reports as well. Some of our airplanes actually send a different accelerometer information back to dispatch and then those are reports are automatically uploaded to us, so we get a pretty good idea of what we're gonna encounter on on each flight.
0:18:45 - Sara
So much more in depth than I thought. Yeah, that is really.
0:18:48 - Chris
It's pretty cool, that's amazing actually so how, how Automated is a flight, like you know, like if you, you're the pilot, you step into the cockpit Are you just hitting the start button and then it takes off itself. Like how automated is everything happening with you, like how much of it is a human aspect to the trip.
0:19:06 - Kyle
Yeah, absolutely, I'll sered and like that question.
0:19:12 - Sara
No no no, it's.
0:19:13 - Kyle
It's really a good question. Honestly it's a fun one to answer. So the airplanes, as far as the automation goes, the best way to look at it is the autopilot Simply manages the lateral portion of the flight and the vertical portion of the flight. And what I mean by that is it's like you know, if you have a car that has kind of the radar Speed control where it'll kind of slow down if a car slows down in front of it, speed up. You know that sort of thing, the autopilot can do the same thing. But the pilots are giving the commands to the autopilot. So once we're up it actually in the sky, you know, we take off, we hand fly and I'm gonna kind of reverse my way through this question we take off, we hand fly up to like 18,000 feet, we turn the autopilot on and then we tell it Okay, I want you to follow the lateral navigation that I've programmed and I want you to follow the vertical navigation that I've programmed and that it'll do all of that.
But when we actually get to the airplane, the first officer typically does the pre-flight checks and the walk around and the captain is kind of managing the Briefings of the flight attendants, the boarding process, all of those things that kind of come into place. So the first officer is checking all the systems. All that's very manual. And then we push back from the gate. We do all of our briefings beforehand. We push back from the gate, we do a manual engine start which, depending on the airplane, some have really automated systems to monitor that start and some don't have any automated systems to monitor it. And so the first Officer is actually sitting there watching what we call the eye, cast the engine into indication crew alerting system I realize I'm getting into the weeds a little bit. So we're watching and making sure that everything's starting the way it's supposed to. Then we do our taxi out, we run all of our pre-flight checklist I'm sorry, I before takeoff checklist, and all of that is very manual.
The captain's driving the airplane as we go around the airport. We set the flaps the way that they need to be again all manual, and then we go rolling down the runway, we take off. That's all manual. You know you have this big yoke that kind of is in your lap. You steer all the way up to 18,000, 30,000, whatever, whatever you decide really turn the autopilot on, hang out, manage the flight watch, the fuel, all of those things, and then once we start our descent again, then it goes back to the manual mode. So the airplane doesn't leave the gate by itself. You know, get to the gate by itself, but it it can do kind of that mundane. Like you know, you don't want to be sitting there for six hours holding the altitude down to one foot. The autopilot does a really, really good job.
0:21:32 - Sara
I like that. There's still some does that answer your question, oh yeah, 100% like because.
0:21:37 - Chris
I mean perfect yeah no, because there's I mean, as a passenger, like we're walking through you know the airplane and we kind of glance like you, like the pilot, the cockpit is this like mystery of buttons and levers inside. We're like I don't know what they're doing in there, but it's cool and so it's. It's nice to see, it's nice to hear, like what, what actually is happening and it makes sense.
0:22:01 - Kyle
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah, no, totally. And I think you know our whole. The slogan that I use with a bunch of our group is hey, let's just try and humanize the flight deck, let's make people understand, you know, when they get on the airplane it's just another person up there, but this is what we're actually doing.
0:22:15 - Sara
Yeah, yeah makes such a difference to actually see a face up there. Like I always stick my head like a little bit in the cockpit, like make sure they have their coffee, like checking.
0:22:23 - Kyle
And they're good. You guys sleep well. Last night, anybody fighting with their spouse? What's going on?
0:22:32 - Chris
So you as a pilot, personally now we're not gonna get into like the what airline and all that stuff. I want to know, like you flying like, what is the worst flight that you've had?
0:22:44 - Kyle
Yeah, so okay, the the most turbulence I've ever had was flying a private jet into into mammoth, and this was back in 2000. This must have been 2015. We were descending in, we were coming over the western part of the Sierras and descending through like maybe 25,000 feet or so and all of a sudden we kind of felt that like kind of rise in the airplane and then we just got into the turbulence for like 10 seconds and we got bumped around. Pretty good, I mean, there was. It was one of those toilets that had to kind of the like removable, you know pot on the bottom Like go back at the end of the flight. There's blue juice all over the. No one use that. So I was a co-pilot, so I'm like I gotta clean that up. So that was the most bumpy flight I've ever had.
But as far as like worst flight, you know, honestly, the stuff that's, that's I would classify as the worst. From a pilot's perspective, it's really just the stuff that becomes logistically challenging long tarmac, delays, managing expectations of the passengers, like you know, when you're waiting on a gate. None of that is really fun, but you're sitting there trying to manage the expectations of the passengers because the last thing you want to do is promise Okay, they said in 10 minutes we're gonna have a gate, and then 45 minutes later there's no progress and it's like I just don't know what to tell you at this point. So those are the ones that become Challenging, in a way.
0:24:07 - Chris
Yeah. Yeah that makes sense completely.
0:24:10 - Sara
I gotta ask being from Tennessee, we flight in and out of Atlanta all the time. Is Atlanta just a pilot's nightmare? I mean, I see those five runways or whatever they have now, and it just looks like an absolutely just a cool nightmare. Is it that bad Right? No, it's really not.
0:24:23 - Kyle
Atlanta really runs like a pretty well oiled machine. They they have it really well down. They have some taxiway designs that work really well so that we're not sitting there kind of waiting to cross runways on our way back into the gate. So Atlanta does things exceptionally well and I think they're the busiest airport in the nation by landings per day something like that, maybe even in the world that it's. It's amazing how well run that is. But when all of a sudden you know Weather starts to move into anything like that, that's operating at a really high capacity, that'll really start to slow things down. So absolutely not a shot on Atlanta at all. It's just kind of the nature of the beast, any, any of those major international airports. When they have a weather system roll through, it can really start to slow down.
0:25:04 - Sara
Yeah, I will do everything in my power not to fly out of the southeast During like summer or storm season in the afternoon I will always take a morning flight because I want to avoid that at all costs.
0:25:16 - Chris
Yeah, I'm trying to stick out of Chicago during the winter.
0:25:22 - Kyle
Oh yeah, I get slowed down with the ice and all that stuff and in Chicago's gotten it pretty again. They're their de ice system that they changed to in the last, I think, two years. Really seems to work pretty well, so I've been been pleasantly surprised with that, but I still think that you're making the right decision. Yeah, I just being from Tennessee in Georgia.
0:25:41 - Sara
Like I see those storms pop up on the radar so fast and I just yeah, I want one bad one hits Atlanta. I mean it just like shuts the whole place down. Yeah, I, I watch a little too closely at the weather, but I'm curious if Chris has any more questions, because I could ask questions all day about like logistics, like where you're going, what?
0:25:56 - Kyle
what kind of stuff you see, yeah.
0:25:58 - Sara
I know from like we want to talk about fear flying a little bit. Do you have any questions about that? Before I jump into more, about fear flying.
0:26:04 - Chris
Well, I'm just full of all kinds of questions.
0:26:05 - Sara
I have what?
0:26:06 - Chris
I do have one more question for you, me as a passenger. When I walk on to that plane, what is the best thing that I can do to Show the pilot appreciation? Is it really like clapping at the end of the landing, like because I don't do that, but I mean, is there anything else that we can do to show you guys appreciation? Or or just be like in a flight attendant. Yeah, and the flight attendants in the crew.
0:26:29 - Kyle
Yeah, yeah, that's a super nice question, you know.
I mean, honestly, for us what's always nice is at the end of the flight, you know whether or not our landing was good. You know a hey nice job, it always always feels good. But no, I mean, I think just especially for the flight attendants, they, they work so hard and they're so professional and really really good at what they do. What they're really trained to do is, in the event of an emergency, get everybody off the airplane in an organized, quick manner, and they don't ever get to do that, which is a good thing, right, we don't want them to ever have to do that. So you know, from the flight attendant standpoint, I think, just Obviously you guys do this, but the, you know the showing of respect and thank you and all that stuff, and I think that really goes a long way. Yeah, from the pilot's perspective, we just always appreciate, you know, saying hi to each other and you know just the kind of in passing conversations. But yeah, I mean, you know we don't need a 20 or anything slid under the flight deck door.
0:27:27 - Sara
They're taking care of you. Well, I should bring you guys more coffee. Make sure you're awake. Yeah, right, so okay that has that kind of is leading me to my next question. It's a little bit, I mean, it's way off from what we're talking about, but pilots in the cockpit, how many are there? Do you fly international or where do you fly?
0:27:49 - Kyle
So right now I fly mostly domestic as a 737 first officer.
So in a month I go to the Boeing 777, which is the international fleet, and so that will be all you know Long-haul international stuff, which will be really fun. But okay, to answer your question, how many pilots are there? Anything less than eight hours is two pilots, anything over eight, but below 12 is three pilots, anything over 12 is four and then I think it's anything over 16, it might be over 15 and a half. Is is four pilots, but it's two captains and two first officers, because you go on a Rotating brake schedule. So that's that's how we do that.
Oh and that changes based on the nation, so like the US is different than the UK, and that so your ships in?
0:28:37 - Sara
Are there always two people, so like if it's an eight-hour flight and there's two pilots, are they both on deck the entire time, or does one get a break at all?
0:28:47 - Kyle
No, so there are always two people on the flight deck. The only breaks we would get in that case would be like a lav break, you know, step back real quick, kind of stretch, that sort of thing. But we'll have a flight attendant come up to the flight deck in that case. You know, hang out up there. But yeah, there's always two pilots on duty at any given time. So yeah, even if it's an eight hour flight, that gets pretty long, you know seven hours and 50 minutes type thing, but yeah, that's, we're always both on duty. No one's you know going back and taking an app type thing. That's good to know.
0:29:13 - Sara
Cause I remember on that Korea flight I'm like hyper alert, Like I'm watching the flight attendants, I'm watching the pilots, but two pilots within a few minutes walked by me and I was like that can't be good.
0:29:23 - Kyle
But I was totally fine, I guess. I guess they were on break. You can't right, but it was like a 13 hour flight.
0:29:28 - Sara
So there were obviously multiple pilots there, but I didn't know exactly how many were still left up there. I was like I just saw two walk by. Is there only one up there now? That's good to know.
0:29:37 - Chris
I didn't know that. I thought you guys I legit thought you guys were just like, yeah, you got to suck it up. It's a long haul. You know 16 hours, here we go, kind of thing. Oh my gosh.
0:29:45 - Kyle
Yeah, yeah, no that I think we would want a 20 slid under the back of the door for that one. But no, it's. They treat us really well. And the fatigue risk management programs that are put in place by the federal aviation administration and the airlines together they do a really, really good job. And one thing I will say on this too it's like we are never penalized if we call it fatigued or if we say, hey, that's not going to work for us.
We're never incentivized to take a flight out. There's never any economic incentive to do so.
We don't get performance based bonuses type thing. So we are always incentivized to make the safe decision, which you know as a fear of flying thing. I hope helps people feel safe because we're not going to take an airplane that we don't feel 100% confident in, you know, with a crew that we don't feel 100% confident in. So you know, the way that I kind of break this down on our calls is pilots are in the business of risk management and risk analysis and if we deem that the risk has risen to a point that is not acceptable and we wouldn't be able to answer to if we made a mistake, we're not going to take the airplane flying that day. And so that's where you know, a lot of that fatigue stuff comes in.
0:30:51 - Sara
Okay, that actually makes me feel a lot better. I didn't know that because, you know, you just hear about all these like airline strikes and everything and I'm wondering like, is it because they're overworked? Are they flying when they shouldn't be? But that actually makes me feel a lot better. This is like calming me.
0:31:05 - Chris
Yeah, this is good, this is answering questions I haven't heard answered on YouTube or anything. We're actually going to save this conversation. I'm just going to keep it downloaded on my phone. We're just going to play Kyle, right. Right, it's there when we play. He's a calm down.
0:31:17 - Kyle
Set her up with some cheez-its and a podcast video before the flight. That'll be me next flight. Oh my gosh, I love it yeah.
0:31:26 - Sara
I do have another question and I know you probably know the answer to this, but checking out the plane, like one of the worst things I could hear is like they're having a mechanical malfunction or something like that. Like it's the last thing I want to hear before we're about to take off who is inspecting that plane on the ground before we actually get the all clear to go. Who is making sure that that plane gets the all clear? Is it somebody who just got hired off of the street or is it somebody who has been to like engineer school and they know what they're doing? Like? Who is checking out this plane?
0:31:56 - Kyle
Okay. So the airplanes are all designed by. In the US we use primarily Boeing products and Airbus products, and so when we buy those airplanes, boeing has gone through the full process and Airbus has gone through the full process of generating a maintenance manual. And so all of these airplanes are designed with unbelievable amounts of system redundancies, whether it's electrical, hydraulic, oil, fire suppression I mean any one of those things. We have all of these different redundant systems. It's really amazing to actually go and learn about them. So all of the pilots are trained how to use the systems on the airplane and all of the mechanics are trained on how to maintain those systems on the airplane.
So when we get an issue, what would actually happen is, let's say, we're taxing out and we're about ready to go, and we do what's called an ICAST recall, and that means we just do a final check and we say, hey, airplane, check yourself one more time. And so we check it and it pops up a I'm just gonna make something up left, hydraulic low pressure, and we go okay, well, we can't take that flying. So what we'll do is we'll actually go to a quick reference handbook that's written by Boeing and signed off by our airline, and we'll run that checklist. And we go, okay, checklist complete. If on the ground, do not take off, it'll say something along those lines. And then we go, okay, we tell ATC, hey, we got to pull over. So we pull over, they find a spot to park us.
We get on the phone really the radio with our maintenance department and we tell them, hey, this is what we got. And they go, okay, run this, run this. What are you seeing? This is what we see. Okay, come back to the gate, go back to the gate. And then they get on board the airplane and they actually go through all of their processes and procedures that are defined by Boeing and they are specifically trained to do them. So in the event of a hydraulic low pressure, what that would likely mean is that we have a fluid leak somewhere, and so they'll go in and they'll isolate that leak, find it, and if we have a part to fix it, they'll fix it, and if not, they'll take everybody off the airplane. We'll wait for a new airplane to come in and they'll reboard that airplane and off we go. And it's a totally inconvenience, but again it becomes that risk management thing that we were talking about.
So, I think the answer to your question is that all of these maintenance technicians are trained professionally and then again trained by Boeing, and all of that oversight comes from the airlines and Boeing and then the final actual sign off comes from our headquarters at each individual airline and then they send us what's called a maintenance release document and once we get that, we know that everything has been taken care of the way that it's supposed to, the parts are all appropriate, everything's been all of the oversight has been accomplished and we're actually good to go again at that point. So very, very thorough process and it's crazy how fast things can get fixed.
Like you know you would think a big hydraulic leak would be a really large problem, and sometimes they'll isolate it and fix it in an hour and I'm like, oh, that was amazing.
0:34:49 - Sara
So that actually makes me feel better. Cause I'm like. Sometimes you're like oh, there's something seriously wrong. We can't fly and then suddenly, 30 minutes later, like we're all good, like what could possibly have been no flight and suddenly flying 30 minutes, yeah.
0:35:00 - Kyle
Well, another thing that happens is, you know, they get on board and there's a issue with what would be a good example of this. I can't even think of something off the top of my head right now, but you know some sort of issue. That's just an exchangeable part and all of a sudden they come in and they just throw a new part on and okay, cool, you guys are good to go, and those parts are designed to be interchangeable, like that. And it may be a, you know, an oxygen canister, something as simple as that, that takes literally 10 minutes to remove and replace. But all these airlines were designed to be airliners and that means ease of access to parts, getting things changed quickly, get the airplane off the ground type thing. Again, not at the risk of safety, but that's just the way that they were designed, versus like a Volkswagen, you know, or an Audi that's designed a little bit more for the luxury and the comfort, and that's why it costs $4,000 to get an oil change.
0:35:50 - Sara
Yeah exactly. Yes, okay, this is really helping actually. I still have more questions, I'm sure, but I know we are on a time crunch here, so I guess I have one more sort of like your rational question and then we'll move into like do you have any practical tips, kind of things. But one more irrational thing how often do the masks actually fall out of the ceiling? Cause that's like my biggest fear is seeing that thing fall down in front of me and just like yeah, in every movie I watch that has an airplane they always fall down.
Gosh Hollywood praise on us. I cannot stand Hollywood.
0:36:20 - Kyle
Oh, totally, yeah, no, they love it right. It's all about engagement. Yeah, I have personally never had them fall. I've never seen them fall. I've heard of people have deployed them like on accident, cause we actually have a switch on the overhead panel that we can deploy there. I was wondering, you know, if we deem necessary, but as far as I know it's pretty exceptionally rare. I mean, you'd have to have a decompression of the passenger cabin for the airplane to actually need to have those oxygen masks fall for us to descend below 10,000 feet and really put everybody back in an environment in which there's enough oxygen to be, you know, comfortable and happy and you know, have the cognition to know, kind of what's going on. So that's the whole idea behind those oxygen masks Gotcha, gotcha.
0:37:05 - Chris
0:37:06 - Kyle
But it doesn't indicate a crash, it just indicates a decompression.
0:37:09 - Sara
OK, that's what I have to tell myself, but I've never seen them.
0:37:11 - Kyle
Actually I have seen one, Somebody's fell out of the ceiling, just one.
0:37:15 - Sara
That was enough to like set me off, but this is.
0:37:17 - Chris
0:37:18 - Kyle
They are all an individual, like kind of packaged cases and they're all in packs of three. For the most part they're all in packs of four on the big airplanes. But yeah, one can fall because you know, a little latch on the plastic thing can remove itself and they'll fall Right. And yeah, the people in that row kind of do it. I do, do I help my kid before I help myself?
0:37:40 - Chris
0:37:40 - Sara
she say no, what you're supposed to do?
0:37:41 - Kyle
Nope, no, no, no, right, yes, you are.
0:37:45 - Chris
So I have one more question in this realm of things, as far as keeping other passengers safe from other passengers, are there like protocols in place? I know that mostly falls onto the air crew, the air stewardess, everything like that, but you know, we were just talking about the mask falling from the ceiling and I remember seeing a video online of it was another passenger who had opened up the door.
Oh, the Korea flight it was like a Korean, yeah, and it was just like all those poor people. I felt so bad, like it just looked miserable as they're flying and the winds flapping in their face. So I would just live in Korea now, like. I'm not going to know so as far as dealing with other people and passengers, what are the safety measures in flights to help people deal with other people, if that makes sense?
0:38:35 - Kyle
Right. So that's kind of a tough question and it's kind of one that I have to punt on only because we're very much at a when we go through our security information training, we're on what we call a need to know basis and so, with sensitive security information, I'm not really allowed to divulge things like flight to security and dealing with passenger safety type things like that. So, yeah, I unfortunately can't really go into that one.
0:39:06 - Sara
I hope you don't mind. No, not at all. I thought you were going in the direction of the Delta flight that just had the turn around because the guy got sick on the plane.
0:39:13 - Chris
I thought that's where you were going. Well, I forgot about that one.
0:39:16 - Sara
That was just a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, poor guy.
0:39:19 - Kyle
You know, what may surprise you is we actually have in our manuals how to deal with something like that. So, we have. Our manuals are like somewhere in the neighborhood of 6,000, 7,000 pages, and so, anything that happens, we have guidance on exactly what to do, and something like that would be not a fun situation for anybody involved, and I feel so bad for whoever it was that had the tummy issues. But, we actually do have guidance on how to deal with things like that, which may or may not surprise you?
0:39:49 - Sara
No, that actually is incredible. I mean, I didn't realize you guys had that throw of an outline of what to do. But I mean, I saw that poor guy or girl, whoever it was. I just remember thinking they're never going to live that down there, forever. That person that they're family and friends, yeah.
0:40:03 - Kyle
You guys want to hear a story? Yeah right, that was me. Yeah, poor guy.
0:40:10 - Sara
Christmas is going to be a lot of fun for him this year. Yeah, Christmas is going to be a lot of fun.
0:40:15 - Chris
So, as far as practical tips go for people that have a fear of flying, what advice can you give us? Any practical tips? Obviously, they need to call you, but is there anything else that we need to go, that we need to have?
0:40:32 - Kyle
So it comes down to a lot of different things and what really kind of rings true for me is understanding where your anxiety lies as a nervous passenger. And so, whether it's things like turbulence or the tumbling feeling when you're on the airplane or kind of allowing your mind to go to the worst case scenario, having a really good understanding of where your kind of avenue is, I think is the most important part, so then you can kind of stop that cycle once you actually get on the airplane and you're flying and you're starting to notice your mind doing that. So let's say, if you're afraid of turbulence and the really kind of small movements of the airplane make you maybe feel queasy or make you uncomfortable, sitting near the front of the airplane is always beneficial. Sitting over the middle of the wing is beneficial, because then you're right over the center of gravity, which is kind of where the airplane pivots from. So that's a big one for those folks that have claustrophobia sitting on an aisle, just those really kind of easy tips like that for folks that have sometimes like a sense of vertigo when they're on the airplane.
Sit on a window seat, look out the window, keep your eye on the horizon, because what people will talk to us about on their calls is they feel like they're tumbling backwards, specifically about five minutes after takeoff, and that's when we really start to accelerate.
And so if you can look outside and reference the horizon, that will kind of stop your inner ear from playing that trick on you and it'll give your mind something to grab on to. So things like that understanding. Hey, maybe I probably shouldn't watch air crash investigations seven episodes the night before my flight. And some people like doing that because it gives them kind of ideas. I'm like, oh wow, aviation safety has advanced quite a bit. But some people go down that rabbit hole because they're trying to confirm to themselves that they're in a bad situation, and so I think it takes a lot of effort to stop that kind of panic from happening. So understanding where sources from each individual person, I think is a really important part, and then finding the tip that works, because if you try everything, you're maybe not going to notice a change. So just taking one small thing and doing kind of the bite sized bits is always the direction that I kind of advise people to go.
0:42:47 - Sara
That's good. Yeah, no, that's really good advice. I'm feeling more empowered. This has been really good personally, so I'm ready. We love to travel. I mean, that's like our job and I haven't let it stop me from traveling yet, but it definitely is like oh, I just dread it now and I used to just like let's go. Like flight day was like the day I loved it.
I wanted to. You know, I just I loved the airport, Like it was the most exciting place in the world to me. And now it's like that fear, like I get there and I'm nervous and I don't eat for two days, like it's just, it's not me Like this is good, this is like I'm working.
No, it's a tough thing, I'm getting there, but I just had no idea until I told a couple of people that I was scared to fly, and they're like me too, people that I never would have expected it. So I know there's a lot of other people out here too who are struggling with this, and I hope that this helps them. They can help rationalize it and, if not, I mean like called Dial A Pilot next time you get on or off a plane.
0:43:36 - Kyle
Yeah, yeah, we'll be. Yeah, we'll be happy to help and I think, if you want me to, so that turbulence that you encountered going to Korea, it was probably what we call sheer turbulence. Do you want me to talk a little bit about that Kind of give you an idea?
0:43:50 - Sara
about it. I want to go to Asia again soon, so please go, yeah, yeah.
0:43:54 - Kyle
OK. So there's kind of three main types of turbulence and they're convective, sheer and rotor, and so the three different types. So convective is associated with thunderstorms typically, and we remember all the way back from fourth grade or whatever it was hot air rises, cool air sinks, and so you kind of go through those areas. The airplane kind of adjusts to the air as it's going through it. You experience that as turbulence. So that's convective turbulence. You may hear people call that air pockets. I don't know where that term came from, but somebody liked it and a lot of people grabbed onto it.
So convective turbulence is one, shear turbulence is another, and that is really more of the style of where the confluence of two rivers would come together and right where they hit that starts to get bumpy right there, and so you have those two different streams coming together. One stream has to go somewhere, the other stream has to go another direction and that is really where the jet stream as it transits the Earth, usually from West to East. It also makes turns North and South, and so where it turns you start to get into that turbulence. So that's what we're encountering normally when we're up at altitude, so when we're up at 34,000 feet, something along those lines. That's where we would encounter something like that. I would say eight times out of 10, maybe even nine times out of 10,.
Changing altitudes will rectify that situation for us, but Sometimes it doesn't, and we just have to go through it and it doesn't pose a danger to the airplane. It's just simply uncomfortable. And so you know that's what you would hear. Let's say you're cruising over the US, you're at 34,000 feet. You get into that sheer turbulence. You'll hear the engines spool up. The airplane climbs 2,000 feet or do you hear the airplane?
the engine spooled down the airplane, will descend 2,000 feet. That's what's going on and that's kind of what the pilots are trying to do. And so we're sitting there actively talking to air traffic control trying to figure it out. Hey, where's the smoother rides? Okay, so that's that sheer turbulence and that's likely what you were encountering if it was over that prolonged of a time. And then finally, the rotor turbulence, which is another one.
I'll just very briefly mention it. That would be like flying into Denver and the winds are out of the West. As they come around the mountains. It's just like you know water moving through a river and encountering a rock. It's got to go somewhere and so it'll either go over the top of the rock and it'll kind of tumble or go around. You know something like that, and so as the airplane transits that it it can be a little bit bumpy. So that's why you know oftentimes will tell the flight attendants to sit down a little bit early going into Denver, to stay seated a little bit longer on takeoff. So those are really the three main types of turbulence.
But going over to Korea, going over the Pacific, you can definitely get into that sheer turbulence over a long period of time and again. I think what's really important here is that it's not a issue for the integrity of the structure of the airplane, but what I always say is like we're actively managing that seat belt sign and having the flight attendant stay seated, because you know, if all of a sudden you take a can of quarters and you shake it around, those quarters are gonna go everywhere inside of the can. The can is gonna be fine, right, but if you take those quarters to the side and shake it around, they're not gonna go anywhere and everybody stays safe. So that's why that seat belt sign becomes so important and you didn't talk about you know having anxiety in that seat belt. Time comes on, but a lot of people do.
I do and so that's kind of yeah, it's. You know, it's just a preemptive measure to say, hey, I think it's gonna get a little bumpy. You know, we don't want Sara walking around and falling over and bonking heads with Chris when he's sitting on the aisle seat. You know things like that, and so that's really kind of where our minds go when we're, when we're Encountering Turbulence or we expect to encounter turbulence, but the airplane is gonna be fine. Granted, you might not get your coffee in the next hour, but you know, we're definitely trying to find the smoother ride so that you can, because nobody wants to stay in their seat the whole time. That's, that's absolutely not the goal right now.
0:47:36 - Sara
That's really helpful.
0:47:38 - Kyle
0:47:39 - Sara
I, you know that people and the pilot understands it and I know that people say the plane is safe enough. It's just in that moment, when you hear that ding of the airplane and the flight attendants told us it down, you're like, oh gosh, this is it, it's not gonna be good, but I love your analogy, right, like your analogies were really good, like it helps me visualize.
0:47:56 - Chris
I'm a very visual learner and so it helps me visualize. I'm like, oh, I can, I can make sense of a rock in a river and the water has to go around right and make sense.
0:48:05 - Sara
It's a right, there was something else like a Jello theory, or I saw something about. What did you call that? It's something about the turbulence. How?
0:48:11 - Kyle
it's not so.
The Jello theory, yeah, so that was put out by somebody I think she's a commercial pilot as well and she, yeah, just kind of threw a rock in the middle of Jello and shook it around.
As he said, the see, the rock doesn't fall out Of the Jello, so the airplane doesn't fall out of the sky, which you know. If you're gonna translate that into scientific terms the way that I do that is, the airplane is bound by the laws of physics and so as long as it's producing lift, it'll continue to fly, and so, you know, we just have to have forward airflow over the wing. Essentially and you know we have we're in a state of controllable flight. So even when, like when we go way back to the beginning of the episode, when I talk about, you know, encountering severe turbulence, going into mammoth, we got beat around pretty good, but the airplane is totally under control the whole time. You know we're sitting there kind of getting thrown around in our seats laughing about it, but you know, the airplane is still fine. The airplane really doesn't know much different anyways, it's kind of that's just trying to get to the, to the destination, you know, yeah that makes sense.
0:49:08 - Sara
I mean, it's true, like it's just, it's physics. I was never good at physics, though, so it's my fear, yeah, yeah.
0:49:14 - Kyle
Yeah, so now we? Now we go to rudimentary applied physics. I think is is the maybe the whole goal of dial-up.
0:49:23 - Chris
Exactly, kyle, if people wanted to follow along, if they wanted to contact you or another pilot, like how can we go about that? What's the best way to do this?
0:49:34 - Kyle
Yeah, absolutely, I appreciate you asking. So we have a website dial-up pilot, calm. We're also very active on Instagram and the service actually really got started on tiktok, which was kind of funny. But Instagram it's just Dial A Pilot. On tiktok it's dial underscore, a underscore pilot. So, yeah, any one of those, and we post all sorts of stuff, you know kind of prevalent questions or common questions, rather, that we're getting. I'll make a little bit of a video about we talk about some of the other pilots that work with us. We have some amazing people. One of our pilots, she's flying the 737 and she's going to learn how to fly f-15s for the Air Force.
I mean just really really cool dang. So you know we talk a lot about stuff like that and you know just share kind of Success stories from our folks that maybe we're nervous travelers before and you know, maybe still are, but have really kind of gained that confidence to to jump on the airplane and and understand Okay, you know, I now have the tools at my disposal to continue forward. So yeah, those, those are kind of the three Best spots to find us.
0:50:34 - Sara
We'll link everything down below to in the show notes and people can find you guys, because I know there are definitely people Just like me out there. So, kyle, thank you so much. This is great. It's hugely helpful, I am oh, my pleasure, I'm much larger step closer to flying again, so this is great.
0:50:48 - Kyle
Yeah, thank you, thank you.
0:50:49 - Chris
0:50:50 - Kyle
Yeah, chris and Sara, thanks so much for having me. That was, that was fantastic. I really enjoyed it.
0:50:53 - Sara
Thank you, yeah talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to what no one tells you with Chris and Sara. You have a comment or question that you want answered on the air? Be sure to send us a message to hello at ChrisandSara.com, or you can call or text our phone number at 423-825-9572. Thanks for listening.
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